Christian Integrative Counseling and Biblical Counseling: The Conversation Continues Forward

Christian Integrative Counseling and Biblical Counseling: The Conversation Continues Forward 

Dr. Aaron New and I have been interacting about “Christian integrative counseling” and “biblical counseling.” 

The conversation string started from my post 5 Reasons It’s Past Time to End the Stereotypes about Biblical Counseling.  

It then continued with three interactive comments/responses in Christian Integrative Counseling and Biblical Counseling: Continuing the Conversation.  

And then with additional interactive comments/responses in Christian Integrative Counseling and Biblical Counseling: The Conversation Continues. 

We wrap up today with final (for now) thoughts, reflections, and interactions. 

Aaron’s Fifth Comment (He Had Not Read My Response to His Fourth Comment): 

I’m back. Is my previous post – short as it was – an accurate enough description?  

As for my last train of thought (or two)… Regarding the philosophical divide between the two camps – I think I understand. I appreciate the deep love for and commitment to Scripture I see in biblical counselors. In fact, I have learned much from them and have been challenged by them. I agree with biblical counselors on the issue of the authority of Scripture. I don’t personally know any Christian counselors who would deny the authority of God’s Word. Where it speaks, it is authoritative. Absolutely. The dividing line sounds to me to be one of sufficiency, then (depending on how one defines the word). I think I’m hearing you say that the dividing line is on this simple yes/no question: Is there any reason to utilize information outside of Scripture in our theories/methods of diagnosing and treating people? 

Here’s my last observation/question. I wonder if this philosophical commitment is tenable in practice. By that I mean this – I think that biblical counselors do use information outside of Scripture in practice. I think biblical counselors make decisions about what to do, where, when, why, & how, using extra-biblical information to do so. They use their previous experiences, common sense, and even intuition to help them decide whether to ask a question, offer sympathy, or confront. To help them determine if a “diagnosis” fits. To help them find a way of communicating that meets clients where they are. To help them decide the most effecient methods for different clients with the same given issue. To use a conflict resolution activity that is most likely to succeed. You get the idea. I understand I’m speaking for biblical counselors here, and that may not be fair. But if biblical counselors use this type of extra-biblical information to assist them (at least a little bit) in diagnosing and intervening, then why not put this type of extra-biblical information to the test. When we put it to the test, then we give it another name – scientific research. 

The acceptance of scientific research in its descriptive form but rejection of it in its prescriptive form has always seemed odd to me. If prescriptive scientific data cannot be trusted because of our “fallen minds in a fallen world,” then descriptive scientific data cannot be trusted either. We have the same fallen minds in the same fallen world in both cases. 

Please hear me carefully. I do not completely trust scientific, extra-biblical data either, and for the very same reasons. I try to pay attention to them very cautiously and always in subordination to what I find in Scripture. But I do not reject them completely. 

*Deep breath* As I look over the words of this and my last comment or two, I sense that they may sound more accusatory and critical than I intended. I’m sorry for that. These are honest questions. I hope you’ll take my comments and questions in the spirit I intended. 

For what it is worth, Bob, I have two of your books “Soul Physicians” and “Spiritual Friends” on my office shelf. I have referred to them on more than one occasion to help me teach my classes at CBC. 

Thanks for the dialogue. I just happened to find this post today via Twitter. I’ll try to stop by more often. 

Aaron 

Aaron’s Sixth Comment: 

Bob, my last post was made before my computer refreshed and I had a chance to review yours. I’ll read and digest it. Thanks again for the dialogue. 

Aaron 

My Response to Aaron’s Fifth (and Sixth) Comment(s): 

Aaron, 

I’ll try to keep this response a little more brief since you are digesting my post with the four or five questions. 

Your most recent post asked about what we might call “descriptive research that addresses prescriptive treatment.” That’s an important question and I may craft a whole blog on it (someone could craft a whole book on it!). But I want to go back the big picture and the practical outworking (which my 5 questions are “getting at”). 

Big Picture: How does a counselor build a comprehensive system of counseling principles and practices–on God’s Word, on man’s reason (not research but worldview, philosophy of people, problems, solutions), or on a combination? 

Practical Outworking: Where does a counselor spend his/her time–examining Scripture, studying man’s wisdom, or a combination? 

There are surely variations on a continuum regarding how various counselors would answer those two questions. I think that’s the continuum (perhaps not the “dividing line”) between a “biblical counselor” and a “Christian integrative counselor.” 

Again, the Biblical Counseling Coalition’s Confessional Statement nuances it like this: 

When we say that Scripture is comprehensive in wisdom, we mean that the Bible makes sense of all things, not that it contains all the information people could ever know about all topics. God’s common grace brings many good things to human life. However, common grace cannot save us from our struggles with sin or from the troubles that beset us. Common grace cannot sanctify or cure the soul of all that ails the human condition. We affirm that numerous sources (such as scientific research, organized observations about human behavior, those we counsel, reflection on our own life experience, literature, film, and history) can contribute to our knowledge of people, and many sources can contribute some relief for the troubles of life. However, none can constitute a comprehensive system of counseling principles and practices. When systems of thought and practice claim to prescribe a cure for the human condition, they compete with Christ (Colossians 2:1-15). Scripture alone teaches a perspective and way of looking at life by which we can think biblically about and critically evaluate information and actions from any source (Colossians 2:2-10; 2 Timothy 3:16-17). 

So, perhaps rather than looking for a dividing line, we might want to be asking: How would you describe the continuum between the theory-building approach (what sources a counselor uses or combines to develop a worldview about people, problems, and solutions) of a “biblical counselor” and of a “Christian integrative counselor”? 

Bob 

Aaron’s Seventh Comment: 

Well, I didn’t do a very good job of indicating so at the beginning, but this is the direction I was hoping we would eventually head. I agree that there are legitimate differences in the way Christians do counseling. But shifting the discussion from “dividing line” to “continuum” is much more satisfactory to me. I mentioned in my first comment that I’ve had growing difficulty finding / utilizing a “dividing line.” 

This is idealistic of me, I know. But if we can agree there is a continuum, then perhaps someday we can eliminate (ok – drastically reduce) the need for camps. If it is a question of degree, not kind, then we are all in the same camp. On the same continuum. 

This speaks directly to your original post. We are all more likely to use stereotypes, pejorative labels, and such when we are in different camps. We can’t escape the “us” vs. “them” mentality. We engage in the turf wars you speak of. Each side will continue to build its empire, sometimes at the expense of the other. 

If you agree that there is a continuum, then hypothetically at least, it would be possible for someone to be legitimately identified as BOTH a biblical counselor AND and integrationist, no? If not, then we are back to “dividing line” conversations and the constant temptation to stereotype, label, and belittle those on the other side of us. 

Maybe the common ground is difficult to find. Maybe a biblical counselor would say, “extra-biblical insight plays a miniscule part in helping be develop a theory and practice for helping people. And maybe a Christian counselor would say, “extra-biblical insight plays a minor role in helping me develop a theory and practice for helping people.” And maybe the gap between miniscule and minor is too great to bridge. I just wish it wasn’t. 

Aaron 

My Response to Aaron’s Seventh Comment: 

Aaron, 

Glad we’re making more progress! 

At the end of the day, my “concern” relates back to the 5 practical questions from my earlier response–what is the counselor actually doing/where is the counselor actually turning in developing a theory/practice for people helping? 

If it is miniscule or minor, you’re right that there is little dividing line. But when whole counseling programs and whole counseling books focus more on secular sources than biblical ones, that’s when I get “concerned.” And I’m not saying at all that you do that. 

Given the number of Christian counseling books I’ve read where there is little in-depth exegetical/theological foundation, I don’t think this is just an outlier. And I’m not one to point an accusatory finger. I’d rather reach out an inviting hand and say, “There is a better way–where you can probe the Scripture’s redemptive narrative and develop a robust, rich, relevant, relational approach.” 

But a person won’t do that until: 1.) They acknowledge that perhaps their current approach is not as Scripture-saturated as they thought, and 2.) They learn the art of searching Scripture (exegetical theology/biblical theology/systematic theology) for real-life, in-depth truth for life (spiritual theology/pastoral theology/practical theology). 

I don’t want to stop our unity movement here, but let me give you a concrete example about the real-life difference. As an editor for Christ-Centered Biblical Counseling, I put together the Scripture index and the author index. If I had included every text that was exegeted/applied and every author from church history who was quoted, the index would have been as long as the book!

So, I did a test–some descriptive research. I looked in the index of half-a-dozen leading Christian integrative counseling texts–texts that covered similar terrain as to our book. Some had barely a Bible quote, much less a thorough exegesis of the text. Some had barely a quote from any Christian current or ancient, yet 100s of quotes from secular authors. And these quotes weren’t just research-based; they were theory-laden. And they were then “baptized” with a “sprinkling” over of a verse here and there, but not robustly examined from a Christian worldview. I’m not saying every Christian counseling book is like that, but I am saying that all 6 leading books that I researched were like that. 

That’s where my “concern” comes into play. We can graciously discuss the minor or miniscule stated convictions. But what happens in real life when students are taught, when books and articles are written, and when people are counseled? 

I want to shout from the rooftops a positive message that the Bible is richly relevant and we can mine it for treasures of wisdom for life in a broken world. The more that a person shouts that and lives that in actual practice as a professor, or counselor, or pastor, the more I would say, “that’s a biblical counseling approach.” 

I hope you hear my heart in this. I’m not against anyone. I’m for the richness of the Bible’s gospel narrative/redemptive story robustly examined and lovingly applied to broken lives. 

Thanks again for the conversation. It has been stretching for me. I appreciate your graciousness and your patience. 

In Christ’s Grace, 

Bob 

Join the Conversation 

How would you describe the continuum between the theory-building approach (what sources a counselor uses or combines to develop a worldview about people, problems, and solutions) of a “biblical counselor” and of a “Christian integrative counselor”? 

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