What Did Heath Actually Say?

I said in Part 1 that I wanted to hear Heath’s voice accurately.

Before we can wisely engage and accurately understand anyone, first we have to listen well.

“To answer before listening—that is folly and shame” (Proverbs 18:13).

In my attempt to listen biblically, I’ve been reading and re-reading Heath’s post on priests, zombies, and prophets. I’ve been collating direct quotes in context and looking for themes and patterns that will help me to hear Heath well.

Heath’s first podcast manuscript ran 8,000 words long. That’s a lot to take in, to digest. It’s almost impossible to interact with in bite-size tweets. Perhaps that’s one reason there’s  been a lot of talk back and forth on social media that stays in generalities.

“I love what Heath said!” “Heath spoke truth!”

“Heath was wrong in what he said!” “Heath mischaracterized faithful biblical counselors!”

So in today’s post, in Heath’s own words, I want to summarize three areas that Heath addressed:

1. Who Are Heath’s Priests, Zombies, and Prophets?
2. Who Is Heath Talking About?
3. What Is Heath Saying About These People?

After collating Heath in his own words, I’ll start sharing some of my thoughts. People have been “clamoring” for this. “Bob, tell us what you think about what Heath has said.”

Then I’ll wrap up today’s post with some interactive questions that will hopefully expand the conversation—so Heath and I can hear each other’s voices.

Who Are Heath’s Priests, Zombies, and Prophets? 

Heath used an analogy from the zombie world to illustrate his concerns. In his own words, here’s what Heath meant by priests, zombies, and prophets.

• Priests = Biblical Counselors: “This glorious garden is where biblical counseling happens, and the priests are the ones who do it.”
• Faithful Priests = Biblical Counselors Studying/Applying God’s Word: “The priests in this magnificent garden are all the faithful people who study the words of our God and apply them to the lives of hurting people.”
• Zombie-Infected Priests = Unfaithful, Compromised Biblical Counselors: “Compromised individuals have infiltrated our garden and are masquerading as faithful. They present themselves as biblical counseling priests studied in our movement and learned in theology. They are neither.”
• Zombies = Secular Counselors: “Zombies are secular people offering secular support for secular problems.”
• Prophets = Guardians of the Galaxy of Biblical Counseling: “The prophets on the wall stand facing the zombie throng and defend the garden from attack. Their weapons of issuing warnings, of calling out specific errors, and of correcting erring priests are powerful and loud.” 

Who Is Heath Talking About? Who Are the Zombie-Infected Unfaithful Biblical Counselors? 

Though Heath did not “name names in his first post,” Heath did identify the category of people that he opines are zombie-infected unfaithful compromised biblical counselors.

Let’s hear Heath.

“I am telling you that our garden has been invaded, and we are in danger. The invaders look like priests but have been compromised by the zombie bite of secularism. Some of these counter-converted priests are current and former leaders of biblical counseling organizations, some are professors of biblical counseling in our seminaries. They identify as biblical counselors on social media, get interviewed as authorities on podcasts, and speak at conferences. They are writing books, articles, and social media posts that you are reading, recommending, and giving to your friends.”

Heath’s zombie-infected unfaithful biblical counselors include:

• Current leaders of biblical counseling organizations.
• Former leaders of biblical counseling organizations.
• Professors of biblical counseling in our seminaries. (In another follow-up post, Heath specifically takes aim at and targets the biblical counseling faculty of Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary.)

Let’s hear Heath.

“The infected priest subtly undermines Scripture by saying things like, “Of course, I am a biblical counselor, but I am clinically informed.” The only priests who ever say such things are ones with deadly infection coursing through their ministry veins.”

“‘I am a biblical counselor, but I am trauma-informed.’” Such talk never comes from faithful priests who believe the Bible speaks powerfully, relevantly, and authoritatively about human pain and provides God’s unique perspective on how to address the horrors of life in a fallen world. Such talk comes from people who like the Bible but believe that we must add the fallen wisdom of lost people to Scripture in order to offer real care. This language is…zombie talk.”

Heath’s zombie-infected unfaithful biblical counselors include:

• Those who describe themselves as “clinically-informed biblical counselors.”
• Those who describe themselves as “trauma-informed biblical counselors.”

As the saying goes, “This is not rocket science!” 

Do a Google search for “clinically-informed biblical counselors.” Do a Google search for “trauma-informed biblical counselors.”

You’ll find ACBC-certified counselors, graduates of Southern Baptist seminaries and of other ACBC-approved seminaries, professors at Southern Baptist seminaries and other ACBC-approved seminaries, Council Board members of the Biblical Counseling Coalition, leaders associated with ABC, CCEF, etc.

*Note: As I mentioned in Part 1, I am not taking Heath’s labels personally, nor am I defensive about these labels. I do not use “clinically-informed” or “trauma-informed” to describe my biblical counseling. But I have many friends who do—friends who are faithful, non-zombie, uninfected biblical counselors.

Let’s hear Heath.

“A defining characteristic of infected priests is their confused misapplication of the true doctrine of common grace.”

Heath expends a good deal of time, energy, and word count discussing common grace. I may interact with this discussion further in future posts. For now, we can note that Heath’s zombie-infected unfaithful biblical counselors include:

• Those who biblically define and apply common grace differently than Heath does.

Again, do a Google search on “biblical counseling and common grace.” You will find faithful biblical counselors discussing common grace theologically, biblically, and historically (church history) and coming to different applications than Heath.

Let’s hear Heath.

Heath shares other defining characteristics that identify the category of people that in his opinion are zombie-infected unfaithful biblical counselors:

“Watch for the use of uncontroversial and reasonable-sounding words like nuance and balance. These benign words mask a malignant agenda.”

“One great example that is popular out there has to do with counseling and the human body. Counter-converted priests roll this out all the time. As the whites of their eyes turn yellow with infection, they shriek, ‘The body is crucial in counseling, so we need to learn all the stuff they know out there in the wilderness about therapy and the body.’”

Heath’s zombie-infected unfaithful biblical counselors include:

• Those who use words like “nuance” and “balance.”
• Those who discuss the role of the body in biblical counseling and come to different theological conclusions and biblical applications than Heath. (I have biblically addressed “embodied-souls” for forty years.)

In summary, in Heath’s words, zombie-infected unfaithful compromised biblical counselors are:

1. Current leaders of biblical counseling organizations.
2. Former leaders of biblical counseling organizations.
3. Professors of biblical counseling in our seminaries (including SEBTS)
4. Those who describe themselves as “clinically-informed biblical counselors.”
5. Those who describe themselves as “trauma-informed biblical counselors.”
6. Those who define and apply common grace differently than Heath does.
7. Those who use words like “nuance” and “balance.”
8. Those who discuss the role of the body in biblical counseling and come to different theological conclusions and applications than Heath.

What Is Heath Saying About These People? 

Remember who “these people” are. They are seminary professors in ACBC-approved schools, seminary graduates from ACBC-approved training centers/schools, current leaders of biblical counseling organizations, past leaders of biblical counseling organizations, members/certified counselors associated with ACBC, CCEF, ABC, Biblical Counseling Coalition Council Board Members. Here is how Heath describes them, in his own words.

1. “Erring priests…”
2. “Bitten and infected by the zombies…”
3. “A threat to the faithful priests.”
4. “Compromised individuals have infiltrated our garden and are masquerading as faithful…”
5. “Infected priests who want to draw them in close enough to spread their deadly infection.”
6. “…a malignant agenda…”
7. “As the whites of their eyes turn yellow with infection, they shriek…”
8. “When infected priests want to woo you out of the garden, they add deceit…”
9. “Bitten by zombies and are on the way to becoming one themselves.”
10. “Infected priests…”
11. “An infected priest…”
12. [to them] “the gospel of grace and the words of Scripture seem old, quaint, trite, and boring.”
13. “They present themselves as biblical counseling priests studied in our movement and learned in theology. They are neither [not studied in biblical counseling nor learned in theology].”
14. “…now carries the deadly virus of secularity in a package of apparent faithfulness”
15. “The zombie-infection of secular psychology begins to take over the life of a once-faithful biblical counseling priest.”
16. Note: Heath describes “the wilderness” as “the lost world apart from God/Christ” and as the place where “secular people offer secular support for secular problems.” Heath then says about infected biblical counselors: “constant longing to return to the wilderness [lost world] & take others with them.”
17. “Constant talk of the need to learn more about what is going on in the wilderness.”
18. “Counter-converted priests love the wilderness [former or fake biblical counselors love the wilderness of godless secularism].”
19. “Wilderness facts captivate their ministry imagination” [these fake biblical counselors are captivated by secular ideas].
20. “Constant longing for the wilderness” [for life without Christ].
21. “Bitten by the zombie bug of the secular and therapeutic, they long for the wilderness” [infected biblical counselors long for secular theory without God/Christ].
22. “…longing for the wilderness and pining discussions for how great it is out there.”
23. “Don’t you see that the intelligent ones they praise always love more of the wilderness.”
24. “…deviation from Scripture…”
25. “…rancid zombie breath that exhales frustration disguised as pious sophistication…”
26. “The infected priest subtly undermines Scripture.”
27. “‘Of course, I am a biblical counselor, but I am clinically informed.’ The only priests who ever say such things are ones with deadly infection coursing through their ministry veins.”
28. “…feigned sophistication…”
29. “The ability of faithful priests truly to help a struggling person without wilderness knowledge is obviously called into question” [by zombie-infected priests].
30. “Zombie infection clouds the mind of infected priests and leads them to confuse friend and foe.”
31. “They [zombie-infected unfaithful biblical counselors] rob the credibility of healthy priests by slandering their position and hoping you will believe it. When you hear those false allegations, you are witnessing an attempted zombie invasion.”
32. “Priests infected with the zombie disease of therapeutic secularism.”
33. “Infected priests must destroy prophets because they are a clear and present danger to zombies” [unfaithful biblical counselors “must destroy” faithful biblical counselors].
34. “The invaders look like priests but have been compromised by the zombie bite of secularism.”
35. [Who are these zombie-bitten secular invaders?]: “Some of these counter-converted priests are current and former leaders of biblical counseling organizations, some are professors of biblical counseling in our seminaries. They identify as biblical counselors on social media, get interviewed as authorities on podcasts, and speak at conferences. They are writing books, articles, and social media posts that you are reading, recommending, and giving to your friends.”
36. “Bitten by zombies and are on the way to becoming one themselves” [Note: Heath insists that he does not call biblical counselors “zombies” only zombie-infected. I’m not a connoisseur of zombie literature, but I believe once infected, don’t you become a zombie—the living dead? And, as Heath specifically says in this quote, once bitten, they are on the way to becoming zombies themselves. That seems pretty equivalent to saying they are zombies…maybe “zombies-in-the-making”?]
37. “…the spiking fevers of zombie infection.”
38. “The New Integrationists are here, and they want you to believe they are the biblical ones.”
39. “…the zombies are in charge…”
40. “…the zombie infection of secularism…”
41. “‘I am a biblical counselor, but I am trauma-informed.” Such talk never comes from faithful priests who believe the Bible speaks powerfully, relevantly, and authoritatively about human pain and provides God’s unique perspective on how to address the horrors of life in a fallen world. Such talk comes from people who like the Bible but believe that we must add the fallen wisdom of lost people to Scripture in order to offer real It is zombie talk.”
42. “Today the voices calling us to integrate deceptively call themselves biblical counselors. The opposition has concealed themselves in our midst. [Note: Like much of this podcast, it is fertilized by warfare language of opposition, attacking zombie hordes, gallant bravehearts at the gates guarding the garden.]
43. “As the zombie disease of secularism takes over the lives of infected priests, they seek to create conflict among the healthy members of the garden.”
44. “The sophisticated-sounding summons for balance on the matter of sufficiency is an ignorant appeal from Zombieland.
45. “Counter-converted priests claim the existence of common grace requires Christians to incorporate secular realities into counseling.”
46. “But infected priests claim God’s common grace adds necessary insight to a Bible in need of no additional insight.”
47. “If you insist that common grace supplies crucial information for counseling that God left out of his Word, then you must deny that the Scriptures are sufficient for counseling ministry” [Note: Notice Heath’s choice of words in the last few quotes: “requires,” “necessary,” “crucial,” and search to see if any current and former biblical counseling organizational leaders, and biblical counseling seminary professors are actually using the words “requires,” “necessary,” “crucial.” More on this in a moment.]
48. “If you are an infected priest, I pray you would neither persist in your untrue understanding of common grace nor make matters worse by denying the sufficiency of Scripture.”
49. “A defining characteristic of infected priests is their confused misapplication of the true doctrine of common grace.”
50. “I am talking about bad counselors.”
51. “Today, the future of the biblical counseling movement depends on you recognizing the zombies.”
52. “…they pose a serious threat.”
53. “…all the infected priests disturbing the tranquility of the biblical counseling garden.”
54. “You don’t have to keep denying biblical truth embraced for years by your brothers and sisters in Christ.”
55. “No one is forcing you to stay locked in doctrinal and ministry confusion.”
56. “You will have to stop publicly opposing faithful ministers of the Word.”
57. “We need you here as a help and not a hindrance.”
58. “You don’t have to spend your energy demeaning and mischaracterizing those of us who have devoted our lives to sharing the truth of Scripture with people in pain.”

“What Do You Think, Bob, About What You’ve Heard?” 

I’ve had people say to me, in response to my posts about Heath, “You’re too nice, Bob.” I’ve had other people say, “Bob, you imply stuff about Heath; just come out and say it!”

Here’s where I begin saying what I think about what I’ve read from Heath in his zombie post. 

Worn Out 

First, I am worn out. Mentally fatigued.

I wanted to hear Heath. I did. I’ve heard fifty-eight Heath Lambert long-form quotes about zombie-infected unfaithful compromised biblical counselors—who are current and former leaders of biblical counseling organizations, professors at Southern Baptist seminaries, etc. These fifty-eight accusations are over 1,000 words—a full blog post worth of accusations. I did a Word “find” search. Heath uses “zombie” seventy-three times. Heath uses “infected” thirty-one times.”

Reading that was exhausting, to be honest. But I’m not asking you to feel sorry for me. You wanted to know how I responded to Heath’s first post. I’m sharing that. And here’s more…

A Word About Words 

Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks (Luke 6:45).

Words matter.

God’s Word says that our words reveal our hearts.

The words we volitionally choose to use about those who disagree with us matter. Using words that accurately characterize rather than mischaracterize people matters to God (Ephesians 4:15; Ephesians 4:29).

Words Matter About Common Grace 

Heath repeatedly says that zombie-infected compromised biblical counselors say that common grace findings are “necessary,” “critical,” “crucial,” “essential, “need/needed.” Choosing those words matters. So far, Heath has not quoted anyone using those words. Maybe he has examples of that language. I would like to read them.

The faithful biblical counselors I read who talk about common grace are using phrases like those used in the Biblical Counseling Coalition’s Confessional Statement and used by David Powlison about common grace such as “helpful,” “brings many good things to human life,” “can contribute to our knowledge of people,” etc. (Read Calvin’s quotes on common grace here.)

Words Matter About the “Wilderness” 

In talking about fellow biblical counselors, Heath describes them as enamored with the wilderness of learning from the lost world of people apart from God and Christ where secular people offer secular support for secular problems. Heath colorfully portrays these unfaithful ones as constantly longing for the wilderness, constantly talking about the wilderness, loving the wilderness, being captivated with the wilderness, longing for the wilderness, constantly longing to return to the wilderness, the constant need to learn about the wilderness, pinning discussions about the wilderness, emphasizing how great the wilderness is, always praising those who love the wilderness.

Again, I would like to see the quotes that depict these chosen, inflaming modifiers. I hear and read fellow biblical counselors expending their time and energy in Scripture and then wisely reading other literature as a catalyst.

Think about Jay Adams who read copiously the writings of secular atheist behavioral psychologist O. Hobart Mowrer. Adams also spent six weeks in a 24/7 training environment with Mowrer. Would we say that Adams was captivated by Mowrer, constantly longing to return to Mowrer, etc.? I don’t think so.

Time spent in reading extra-biblical literature and then using the new eyes of Scripture to assess them (as Powlison often described it) does not equal longing for and loving the wilderness.

Words Matter About Counseling and the Human Body

Lambert waxes poetic and paints with dark shadows when he exclaims:

“One great example that is popular out there has to do with counseling and the human body. Counter-converted priests roll this out all the time. As the whites of their eyes turn yellow with infection, they shriek, ‘The body is crucial in counseling, so we need to learn all the stuff they know out there in the wilderness about therapy and the body.’”

Note again Heath’s volitionally, purposefully selected word choices of modifiers like “crucial” and “need.” And it is impossible not to notice Heath’s fanciful wording about “the whites of their eyes turning yellow with infection, they shriek”!

Lions, and tigers, and bears! Oh my! Zombies, and infected priests, and prophets! Oh my!

Allow me to place myself into this narrative. I’ve spent parts of four decades exploring biblically, theologically, and historically (church history) the doctrine of humanity—theological anthropology. I did my Th.M. thesis on Old Testament Hebrew anthropological words for our inner nature. I’ve spoken at NANC/ACBC conventions on embodied-souls. I’ve written books endorsed by NANC/ACBC Fellows that biblically examine what it means to be soul physicians of embodied souls. I’ve collated 55 Resources on Counseling the Whole Person: The Bible, the Body, the Embodied-Soul, Research, Science, and Neuroscience.

“Oh, my! Fifty-five! That’s a lot! You must love the wilderness!”

No.

I love studying Scripture and what it says about embodied-souls, the Creation/Cultural Mandate, Common Grace, research, science, neuroscience, the noetic effect of sin, general revelation, special revelation, the sufficiency of Scripture. Before our preparation for our move from Washington to Florida, I had collated over 400 pages of single-spaced notes on a cover-to-cover biblical study of what God’s Word says about being soul physicians of embodied-souls. And so far I’ve only gotten from Genesis to the Wisdom Literature. I anticipate having well over 1,000 pages of notes before I finish.

Why bring myself into the narrative? I want to illustrate that we must allow people to define their terms biblically, rather than shrieking about “buzz words” and mischaracterizing what people actually believe, teach, write, and practice.

See here for more on “buzz words” and biblical definitions.

Personally, I’d be happy to engage in iron-sharpening-iron interactions about any of my fifty-five resources. I’ll do that with Heath. We can learn from each other.

It Is Legitimately Biblical to Discuss What Makes Biblical Counseling Truly Biblical 

In 2010, Randy Patten, Steve Viars, and David Powlison asked me to consider being the founding Executive Director of the Biblical Counseling Coalition. When I said I thought I was the wrong choice—because of how some might perceive me, David Powlison spoke up—not just to me, but in the presence of the initial Board of Directors of the Biblical Counseling Coalition.

“Bob, I believe you are the exact right choice. You’re our litmus test. If people can’t see you as a biblical counselor, then they wouldn’t be a fit in the Biblical Counseling Coalition.”

David and I then facilitated three dozen biblical counseling leaders in the development of the Biblical Counseling Coalition Confessional Statement. I thoroughly enjoyed that ten-month privileges of working shoulder-to-shoulder with David.

In an organization designed to unite biblical counselors, why did we need a confessional statement? We saw it as a way to express a unified, agreed upon, comprehensive, collaboratively-developed summary of the essence of the modern biblical counseling movement—as three dozen biblical counseling leaders conceived it. We did want a guide and guardrail—the Biblical Counseling Coalition Confessional Statement.

Over the years, I was tasked by David Powlison and the rest of the BCC Board of Directors with overseeing the detailed interviewing of prospective BCC Council Board members. Our assessment especially hinged on whether those prospective members would affirm (initially and annually) their agreement with the BCC Confessional Statement as representative of their understanding of what the Bible says about biblical counseling.

So, I agree with Heath about our need to have guardrails and guides.

I happen to think that guidelines developed collaboratively by dozens of biblical counseling leaders from a multitude of churches, seminaries, para-church groups, and from around the world is a much better guide than anything that any one individual speaking on their own could produce.

I also think that we need to be careful not to confuse “the modern biblical counseling movement” with “historic Christian soul care” and the two-thousand-year history of biblical counseling. See, When Did Historical Biblical Counseling Begin.

Ideally, our confessional statements about biblical counseling examine the Scriptures collaboratively—with others alive today and with that great cloud of Christian witnesses who have gone before us (Hebrews 11-12).

The Big Reveal 

Heath’s initial post was his attempt to lay out his concern that some who were claiming to be biblical counselors were instead zombie-infected compromised and unfaithful biblical counselors. Initially it could have been hard for anyone to assess Heath’s words because of his choice not to name names.

If there is a hoard of invading zombie-infected compromised unfaithful biblically counselors in our midst, then let’s guard the walls! “Frankenstein’s monster is on the loose! Protect the children! Guard the village! Light the lanterns! Get out the pitchforks!” (These monster analogies can get creepy…)

Of course, the question is,

Who are these monsters, these zombie-infected priests?

Well, it took me long enough to read and re-read Heath and collate Heath’s words, that we now have the big reveal—at least Reveal #1.

The monster zombies at the gate are the biblical counseling faculty members at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary (SEBTS). Heath named names: Nate Brooks, Brad Hambrick, Kristin Kellen, and Sam Williams.

Brad Hambrick was (and is) one of the founding Council Board members of the Biblical Counseling Coalition—selected and affirmed by David Powlison and the rest of the BCC BOD.

Sam Williams was one of the founding Council Board members of the Biblical Counseling Coalition—selected and affirmed by David Powlison and the rest of the BCC BOD. Of the thirty-six biblical counseling leaders who collaboratively crafted the BCC Confessional Statement, the three most actively involved were David Powlison, myself, and Sam Williams.

Kristin Kellen co-authored a major biblical counseling text with two life-long leaders of the modern biblical counseling movement—Pastor Rob Green of Faith Biblical Counseling Ministries, and Dr. Robert Jones of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary.

Nate Brooks is a Ph.D. graduate of the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary studying under ACBC Executive Director, Dale Johnson, was a TA for Jeremy Pierre at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary for six years, and was a biblical counseling professor ministering with Jim Newheiser at Reformed Theological Seminary in Charlotte, North Carolina. Nate’s theological education neatly parallels that of Heath Lambert.

These four are among the zombie-infected hordes infiltrating the pristine garden of the modern biblical counseling movement. “Brad, Sam, Kristin, and Nate! Oh, my!” (Now, some will chide me for language like that. Well, Heath used some creative metaphors about zombie infestations. I’m using some creative imagery in response. Oh, my!)

Hitching to Heath? 

Heath named names. We can also name names of those who affirmed and applauded Heath’s post(s). It’s as easy as going to social media. Some, of the many, who praised, supported, and/or defended Heath’s post(s) are folks like Mark Williams who works for Donn Arms at The Institute for Nouthetic Studies. And Julie Ganschow who oversees Reigning Grace Counseling Center. And Dale Johnson, Executive Director of the Association of Certified Biblical Counselors. And, many, many, many more.

I respect and like Mark, Julie, and Dale. I’m not saying, “Mark, Julie, and Dale! Oh, my!” I do want to engage with these folks as representatives of those who are affirming Heath’s post(s).

1. As you re-read the fifty-eight quotes I collated from Heath’s first post, and as you see now that they apply, at least in part, to Brad, Sam, Kristin, and Nate, do you still affirm all that Heath said about them being zombie-infected compromised unfaithful biblical counselors? Do you believe that Heath has accurately characterized them?

2. As you answer that first question, how do you factor in how Heath characterized Jay Adams and the first generation of biblical counselors? (Consider reading Donn Arms’ assessment of Heath’s assessment of Jay: Heath, Jay, and Donn: Mischaracterizing Fellow Biblical Counselors.) Did Heath get it right then when he nicely positioned himself as to the “left” of Jay and first-gen biblical counselors? Or, as Donn Arms charges, did Heath consistently mischaracterized Jay Adams and even consistently quote slanderous things about Jay Adams? If Heath got it wrong then, is he getting it right or wrong now in his characterizations today?

3. As you answer that first question, how do you factor in how Heath characterized Eric Johnson? (Consider Heath’s public repentance over how he mischaracterized and spoke sinfully about Eric: Clarifying and Confessing: A Letter from Heath Lambert.) I affirm Heath in his public humility and repentance over his treatment of Eric. With Eric, Heath neatly positioned himself to the “right” of Eric. In Heath’s mind, he is to the “left” of Jay and to the ”right” of Eric. If Heath needed to publicly confess mischaracterizing Eric, and if Donn Arms is right that Heath mischaracterized Jay, then given Heath’s history, do you affirm that all that Heath said in his recent post(s) about invading infected zombie hordes of compromised unfaithful biblical counselors is true? Or, is it possible that there is a pattern of Heath not accurately representing those with whom he deems to his ”left” and to his “right” as he positions himself in the goldilocks zone of biblical counseling rightness?

Hearing Each Other: A Dozen Questions I’d Like to Ask Heath 

In my first post, I stated that one of my goals was to hear Heath.

Another stated goal was that Heath and I might hear each other well.

With that in mind, based on my reading and re-reading of Heath’s first podcast manuscript, I would ask Heath the following questions:

1. Have I quoted you accurately and fairly in today’s post?

2. In this post, have I stated accurately how you define priests, zombies, prophets, and zombie-infected priests?

3. In another post, I examined biblical models of confrontation. In your post, you used Jesus calling others “wolves” as part of your model. In your public words, have you used passages like Galatians 6:1; Matthew 7:1-5; and 2 Timothy 2:22-26, as models for how you publicly confronted other biblical counselors? For instance, have you looked at possible faults in your own biblical counseling to the same degree that you are looking at faults in other people’s models? Have you looked at any possible specks in your eyes-in your model, or is the focus looking at logs in other people’s models? Do you believe that your post aligns with 2 Timothy 2:22-26 and “not producing quarrels, “the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone,” “gently instructing” others?

4. People have suggested that you and I speak privately. Are you open to that?

5. Your quotes explain that a focus on the body can become a way for zombie-infection to sneak into the biblical counseling movement. I’ve written at least 55 resources on a biblical theology of embodied-souls. Would you be interested in interacting together about any of those resources and mutually biblically assessing them?

6. Your post clearly provides descriptions and categories that indicate who you are speaking about. (And your latest post now names names at SEBTS.) Have you spoken to any of these people to see if your characterizations of them are accurate? Have you offered any of them an opportunity to “rebut” what they believe are mischaracterizations? If not, would you prayerfully consider doing that?

7. Your quotes indicate that zombie-infected biblical counselors say that common grace findings are “necessary,” “critical,” “crucial,” “essential, “need/needed, “required” to do biblical counseling. The faithful biblical counselors I read who talk about common grace use phrases like those used in the Biblical Counseling Coalition’s Confessional Statement and used by David Powlison about common grace such as “helpful,” “brings many good things to human life,” “can contribute to our knowledge of people,” etc. Is it possible that you are putting words into the mouths of these biblical counselors? Or, do you have quotes that demonstrate that biblical counselors are saying common grace findings are “necessary” (etc.)?

8. Your quotes note that only zombie-infected biblical counselors would ever use terms like “trauma-informed biblical counseling” and “clinically-informed biblical counseling.” Is this a blanket statement and final judgment, or do you allow such counselors to define their terms biblically, theologically, and historically (church history)? (See here for more on “buzz words” and biblical definitions.)

9. On September 11, 2017, you publicly repented of the way you spoke of Eric Johnson. In your mind, how is your post on priests, zombies, and prophets different from how you spoke of Eric? Considering the fifty-eight quotes above, how is your speaking about fellow biblical counselors different from your words about Eric Johnson? You called others to repentance in your first post; is there any desire or need to search your heart to see whether that call might also apply to you?

10. Since you insisted that zombie-infected compromised unfaithful biblical counselors stop “demeaning and mischaracterizing” you or others like you, as you prayerfully re-read these fifty-eight quotes of yours, do you think you may have done any “demeaning and mischaracterizing” of biblical counselors who disagree with you? Or do you stand by your conviction that what you said was all truth in love? Donn Arms nouthetically confronted you for mischaracterizing and demeaning Jay Adams and first generation biblical counselors. Is it is at all possible that you have done that again here?

11. In your posts, you exhort the zombie-infected biblical counselors to stop being divisive. As you re-read the fifty-eight quotes, do you see your posts only as speaking the truth in love? Or, do you see any chance, any possibility, that your post could be divisive—not because of others responding poorly, but because of what you wrote—the words you volitionally chose to use?

12. What question(s) would you want to ask me? 

What’s Next? 

Honestly, I don’t know what’s next. I’ve written a lot already—in this post and in others, here, here, and here.

Heath’s latest post focused specifically on the biblical counseling faculty at SEBTS. If anyone were to speak into that, I think it should be SEBTS biblical counseling professors. (I also think it would be helpful if biblical counseling professors from other Southern Baptist seminaries explained whether they agree or disagree with Heath.)

In Heath’s zombie post, he focused a lot of energy on trauma-informed and clinically-informed biblical counselors. Since I don’t use that language to describe my biblical counseling approach, I think it would be best if those biblical counselors who use those terms responded to Heath.

Given that I have chosen to publicly engage with Heath, I would not be surprised if Heath chooses to publicly engage with me. If that occurs, then I’ll prayerfully consider what is best to do (Philippians 1:9-11).

And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight, so that you may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless for the day of Christ, filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ—to the glory and praise of God.