A Word from Bob 

Three days ago I posted one of my many resource blogs: 46 Biblical Counseling Resources on Trauma and Trauma Care. (The post now has 50 resources, and like almost all of my resource posts, I will continue to edit, develop, tweak, and add to it.)

I included a wide cross-section of resources from a wide array of biblical counseling organizations (CCEF/15, ACBC/6, BCC/5, ABC/3, BCUK/1), biblical counseling seminaries (Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary/5, The Master’s University/3, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary/3, Faith Bible Seminary/Faith Biblical Counseling Ministries/2, The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary/1), biblical counseling publications (The Journal of Biblical Counseling/7, The Journal of Biblical Soul Care/), and biblical counseling publishers (New Growth Press/5, P&R Publishing/3, Shepherd Press/1, Harvest House/1).

So I honesstly thought a resource post like this would be quite innocuous (innocent, bland, harmless, inoffensive). Ha! In today’s biblical counseling climate, I should have known better than to think everyone will consider anything harmless.

A Word from Sean 

Within the day, Sean Perron had posted the following blunt response on Twitter/X:

“There is no better example of why we wrote a ‘Call to Clarity’ than this post [by Bob Kellemen]. The confusion here is deep and wide. To label many of these resources as “biblical counseling” demonstrates a fundamentally different definition of the term. It is a strange stew of Christian psychology, biblical counseling, and integration. The only common denominator is that the books are written by Christians and deal with suffering. Beware of eclectic counseling. Sadly, Bob isn’t a biblical counselor, no matter how much he wants to cling to the title” (emphasis added).

Some Words on Twitter/X 

As you might imagine, there has been a good deal of follow-up on Twitter/X. In today’s post, I’m sharing two of my longer thread responses.

• The first thread shares my perspective.
• The second thread shares my attempt as seeing this matter through Sean’s perspective.

Note: I am slightly editing, tweaking, and updating my wording from my Twitter/X thread. The essence of what I said there is substantially the same here. You can find my original threads at my Twitter/X account.

Thread #1: Bob’s Perspective—A Thread on Common Grace, Saving Grace, and Biblical Counseling Resources… “Is Bob Kellemen a Biblical Counselor?” 

History: Two days ago, I wrote the post: 48 Biblical Counseling Resources for Trauma and Trauma Care. A day later, Sean Perron posted a response on Twitter. After sharing Sean’s response, I will share my perspective:

Sean has moved the target of what is Sean-approved material for biblical counselors.

Sean’s Response to My Resource Post: “There is no better example of why we wrote a “Call to Clarity” than this post [by Bob Kellemen]. The confusion here is deep and wide. To label many of these resources as “biblical counseling” demonstrates a fundamentally different definition of the term. It is a strange stew of Christian psychology, biblical counseling, and integration. The only common denominator is that the books are written by Christians and deal with suffering. Beware of eclectic counseling. Sadly, Bob isn’t a biblical counselor, no matter how much he wants to cling to the title.”

My Response to Sean’s Post: Sean Perron has moved the target from common grace to saving grace.

Common Grace: Since May 2024, Sean Perron and Heath Lambert have been saying that SEBTS biblical counseling professors are not truly biblical counselors, but in reality zombie-infected false priests, because they use Scripture to assess the potential value to biblical counselors of common grace resources—resources from non-Christians. They claim that these zombie-infected false priests are misunderstanding and misusing the biblical concept of common grace.

Saving Grace: Now Sean is saying that I am not a biblical counselor because I use the Scriptures to assess the value of resources by brothers and sisters in Christ who are recipients of saving grace—resources from Christians. According to Sean, I am not a biblical counselor because I included among “biblical counseling” resources, materials written by Christians who are not Sean-approved biblical counselors.

Diane Langberg: For example, Diane Langberg, who does not describe herself as a “biblical counselor,” is a committed Christian—a recipient of saving grace. I included a Langberg resource among my 48 resources. It is a resource published by New Growth Press—a publishing house that publishes 100s of biblical counseling resources. Langberg’s resource was endorsed by CCEF biblical counselor Mike Emlet. Is it a “biblical counseling” resource? I’d say, “Read Langberg’s book, Suffering and the Heart of God: How Trauma Destroys and Christ Restores, and assess what Langberg actually says in the book. At the very least, it is a valuable resource for biblical counselors, written by a fellow Christian—a recipient of saving grace. What makes a resource a “biblical counseling” resource? John Frame’s writings are highly recommended by many biblical counselors. Frame has publicly written that he does not consider himself a “biblical counselor.” Can Frame write a book and we deem it a “biblical counseling” resource?

Biblical Counselors: Additionally, I included resources by other Christians—who call themselves “biblical counselors”—who Sean does not deem to be true biblical counselors. So far, Sean has not responded to my request that he identify who among my 48 resource providers he deems to be non-biblical counselors. However, we know who they are from Sean’s past posts. Sean does not consider SEBTS biblical counseling professors Kristin Kellen, Brad Hambrick, Nate Brooks, Tate Cockrell, and Sam Williams to be biblical counselors. Sean does not include Jeremy Lelek as a Sean-approved biblical counselor. Sean does not include Eliza Huie as a Sean-approved biblical counselor.

Here’s the Point: Sean is now saying I am not a biblical counselor because I recommended as biblical counseling resources materials from fellow Christians who are the recipients of saving grace—but who Sean deems not biblical counselors. Sean said it: the only common denominator in Bob’s post is “the books are written by Christians.” Hear that again: “The books are written by Christians.”

Eclectic Counseling: Sean is no longer defining “eclectic counseling” as counseling that assesses common grace resources. Sean is now saying that “eclectic counseling” is counseling that includes resources by recipients of saving grace—like biblical counseling professors at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary. Recommending resources by SEBTS biblical counseling professors, as I did, results, according to Sean, in “a strange stew.”

Defining Biblical Counseling and Describing Biblical Counselors: Yes, I have a different definition of the term “biblical counseling” and “biblical counselor” than does Sean. I posted my 18-word description in my blog entitled, 6 Biblical Counseling Convictions, and it’s in my Twitter/X bio: Biblical counselors are:

“Christ-Centered, Theologically-Saturated, Relationship-Focused, Church History-Informed, Research-Aware Soul Physician of Embodied-Souls.”

Here’s the Thing: I have dear friends who describe themselves as “Clinically-Informed Biblical Counselors.” I do not use that label for myself, but I respect their detailed descriptions of what they mean by that term.

People can differ with my description, and I still can deem them “biblical counselors.” I do not have the final say.

Sean-Approved Biblical Counselors: On the other hand, Sean has limited his definition of “biblical counseling” and “biblical counselor” to Sean-approved Christians. He is now publicly insisting that unless I agree with his pre-approved list, and separate from those outside his pre-approved list, then I am not a biblical counselor. And that’s fine. Sean can call me whatever he wants. This is not about me. It is about:

Whether recipients of saving grace—Christians—can produce “biblical counseling” resources if they are not on the Sean-approved list.

The Ever-Tightening Boundaries: This move to shrink the boundaries was predictable. There is an urge, an instinct, to restrict further and further the “in” group only to those who align with one’s ever-tightening position. As biblical counselor Brad Hambrick noted in a tweet about this issue, it appears that Sean is saying that the world of biblical counseling is limited to the 3,000 ACBC-approved certified biblical counselors. Or, put another way:

The world of “biblical counseling” resources is limited to resources written only by Sean-approved biblical counselors.

My Intent: I wanted to provide resources on trauma and trauma care for biblical counselors. I wanted to include a cross-section of resources. I have received scores of expressions of appreciation for collating these resources. I did not intend on creating yet another firestorm about what makes a resource a “biblical counseling” resource. However, I believe this has been instructive:

For some, the allowable “in” group will be ever-shrinking.

My Hope: I’ve previously expressed the hope that the varying groups in these debates about and among biblical counselors would sit down face-to-face to discuss these matters. I would say to Sean, “I’d be happy to discuss any of these issues with you in a face-to-face meeting.”

Thread #2: A Thread on Seeking to Look Through Sean Perron’s Eyes—What Is a “Biblical Counseling Resource”?

After I posted on my blog 46 (Now 50 and Growing) Biblical Counseling Resources for Trauma and Trauma Care, Sean Perron posted on Twitter/X that:

“There is no better example of why we wrote a ‘Call to Clarity’ than this post [by Bob Kellemen]. The confusion here is deep and wide. To label many of these resources as “biblical counseling” demonstrates a fundamentally different definition of the term. It is a strange stew of Christian psychology, biblical counseling, and integration. The only common denominator is that the books are written by Christians and deal with suffering. Beware of eclectic counseling. Sadly, Bob isn’t a biblical counselor, no matter how much he wants to cling to the title” (emphasis added).

Responding Like a Christian Biblical Counselor: I’ve already responded on Twitter/X sharing my perspective. However, as a Christian, and as a biblical counselor, we are called to seek to empathetically look through the eyes of others. I want to seek to do that in this tweet thread.

Reason #1: Why might Sean see my resource list as an “eclectic stew”? Well, I included a Diane Langberg source in my list. Given that she does not claim to be a biblical counselor, I can see why Sean would, from his perspective, question her inclusion. While I would say, “Let’s read the resource itself,” I can still understand Sean questioning that resource and questioning my title: “biblical counseling resources.”

Reason #2: I also included resources from people who Sean has publicly called “neo-integrationists” like Nate Brooks, Brad Hambrick, Tate Cockrell, Sam Williams, Kristen Kellen, Jeremy Lelek, and Eliza Huie. I also included posts from the Biblical Counseling Coalition, which some of Sean’s colleagues (and maybe Sean?) have deemed neo-integrationists. I also included posts by Ed Welch, and a recent 32-page article in ACBC’s Journal of Biblical Soul Care questioned whether Welch was a biblical counselor or an integrationist. Given all of those resource writers, and given Sean’s perspective on them, I can see why he would describe my post as “a strange stew” and “eclectic counseling.” Note: I’m not saying I agree with Sean. I am saying I can see where he is coming from.

Is Bob a Biblical Counselor?” I can also understand Sean saying, “Bob isn’t a biblical counselor, no matter how much he wants to cling to the title.” If the definition of biblical counselor is the one that Sean, Heath Lambert, and others are using in their posts about “zombie-infected, neo-integrationist” counselors, then I agree: I am not that type of biblical counselor. I am not a Sean/Heath biblical counselor. Sean has the freedom to deem me outside the bounds of his definition of biblical counselor. Sean has the freedom to publicly warn those who follow his model of biblical counseling that I am outside his definition of a :biblical counselor.”

What’s in a Title/Label?: I actually don’t “cling to the title” “biblical counselor.” Even though I was mentored by Bill Goode in the 1970s in nouthetic counseling, I never took on the title “nouthetic counselor.” For decades I have written about areas where I see missing components in the modern nouthetic counseling movement. (Added note: Just today I saw that my book, Consider Your Counsel: Addressing Ten Concerns in Our Biblical Counseling, was Ranked #1 in Christian Ministry, #1 in Christian Pastoral Resources (Kindle Store), #1 in Christian Counseling & Recovery at Amazon.) For years, I’ve used various descriptors for my approach: “soul care,” “historic Christian soul care,” “historic Christian soul care and spiritual direction,” “historic Christian sustaining, healing, reconciling, and guiding,” “soul physician,” and “biblical counseling/biblical counselor.” Honestly, if the Evangelical Christian world were to swing to the place where the majority of people align with Sean’s definition of “biblical counseling,” then I would likely cease using that descriptor at all. (Added note: I do not think the majority of people in the Evangelical Christian world will align with Sean’s definition.)

My Approach: I’ve defined my approach to biblical counseling in 25 books, in over 2,500 blog posts, and in 100s of published articles. I’ve encapsulated my approach with these words: “Here’s my 18-word description of my model of biblical counseling. Biblical counselors are:

Gospel-Centered/Christ-Centered, Theologically-Saturated, Relationship-Focused, Church History-Informed, Research-Aware Soul Physicians of Embodied-Souls.”

I define all of those terms in detail in many places.

Sean can look at those descriptions, he can look at a post like my 46 (48, 50) resources, he can read my public support for people like Nate Brooks, Jason Kovacs, Kristin Kellen, Brad Hambrick, Jeremy Lelek, and others, and he is free to claim that Bob Kellemen is not a biblical counselor according to Sean’s convictions about and definitions of biblical counseling.

Who Gets to Define “Biblical Counseling”?: Sean is a man of convictions. His convictions and mine about what makes biblical counseling truly biblical are quite different. Sean is right when he writes that he and I have “a fundamentally different definition of the term” biblical counseling. The differences are so pronounced that it does seem to make some sense to somehow distinguish between Sean’s approach to biblical counseling and what I do as a counselor. (Added note: For how I address some of those differences, see: What Is “Historic,” “Classic” Biblical Counseling.)

Sean Does Not Have to Agree with Me: As someone who has written three books on the history of Christian soul care, of course I think I align with historic “biblical counseling.” But Sean does not have to agree with that. In fact, it is becoming clear to me that Sean should not agree with that. He and I have different approaches, different understandings of:

• What the Bible teaches about biblical counseling,
• What the Bible teaches about common grace,
• What the Bible teaches about embodied-souls,
• What the Bible teaches about science, neuroscience, and descriptive research,
• What the Bible teaches about embodied-soul interventions,
• Etc., etc., etc.

Just read that summary list of differences—that’s a lot. So again, I understand Sean saying that I am not a biblical counselor—according to his definition.

Labels: Now, while Sean is free to label me a “neo-integrationist,” I do not accept that label. As I’ve indicated, if I were to deem that I no longer fit in “the modern nouthetic biblical counseling movement,” then I would choose some other labels such as: “Christian soul care giver,” “soul physician of embodied-souls,” etc. I provide pro bono counseling/soul care for scores of pastors, counselors, missionaries, and Christian educators. They know me. They don’t care about what label others place upon me. As I’ve said, I’m really not hung up on labels either.

Face-to-Face, Brother-to-Brother: Of course, to really see life through someone else’s eyes, it sure helps to talk. I would be glad to talk to Sean about any of these issues. If I were to talk, some questions I would want to discuss might include,

• “Who do you see as a true biblical counselor?” “Is it only ACBC and ACBC-aligned counselors who, in your mind, are truly biblical counselors?”
• “Do you see the Biblical Counseling Coalition as a biblical counseling organization or as a neo-integrationist organization?” “Since Heath was a founding member of the BCC, when do you think the BCC changed?” “How have they changed?”
• “Do you see CCEF as a biblical counseling organization?” “If not, when did they change?” “Is CCEF staff member Ed Welch a biblical counselor?” “Is CCEF staff member Darby Strickland who writes frequently on trauma, a biblical counselor?”
• “David Powlison saw me as a biblical counselor when he asked me to be the founding Executive Director of the Biblical Counseling Coalition. Do you think David was wrong about me?”
• Added Question: “What would it look like, Sean, for you to write a post like this—where you sought to look at this issue through Bob Kellemen’s eyes?” “How would you word my position in a way that I would recognize it as a fair presentation of my view of biblical counseling?”

I’d be intrigued to know what questions Sean would ask me. I’d love to hear his questions and respond in an interactive, face-to-face, brother-to-brother way.

Through Sean’s Eyes: Even the process of writing this has helped me to sense a bit more what life is like through Sean’s eyes, and what it means to fight for his convictions about what makes biblical counseling truly biblical. Of course, only Sean could indicate whether I am on track or off track in understanding him…which is why an interactive, face-to-face conversation would be so helpful…

Blessings, Sean.

Your brother in Christ, Bob.

Addendum

Sean publicly responded on Twitter/X with these positive words. I think it would be a fitting end to this post to share Sean’s response.

“Bob, I appreciate this. You are correct that our convictions about [what] ‘makes biblical counseling truly biblical are quite different.’ The great news is that we are still brothers and Jesus is our Lord. Thankful to get clarity on disagreement and still be united in the faith once for all delivered to the saints!!”