A Word from Bob
In the past week, I did something rare—I listened to a podcast. In fact, I listened to two podcasts. I’m much more of a reader than I am a podcast listener. However, I made time for these two timely and relevant podcasts.
Perhaps you have noticed some tensions among leaders in the modern biblical counseling world? These two podcasts explain the issues and suggest a way forward.
Podcast #1: Kevin Laymon Interviews Pastor Stephen Ganschow—Biblical Counseling’s Civil War: A Fight Over Scripture’s Sufficiency
Here’s your link: Biblical Counseling’s Civil War.
While I might have chosen a different title, and especially a different sub-title, the podcast itself is well-reasoned.
Podcaster Kevin Laymon describes the podcast episode like this:
“The biblical counseling movement is quietly experiencing a civil war over the sufficiency of Scripture, with major implications for how believers approach counseling and discipleship. In this video I interview Dr. Stephen Ganschow on the roots of the conflict, why it matters, and how it could reshape the future of biblical counseling as we know it.”
I do not believe this is a civil war “over Scripture’s sufficiency.” Rather, it is a “civil war” over what the Bible says about extra-biblical information. Both “groups” in this discussion are committed to scriptural sufficiency—but they have different applications of scriptural sufficiency to biblical counseling.
Disclaimer: It is only fair for me to note that I am biased in recommending this podcast, for several reasons.
- They say nice things about me! Go right to the 24:38 mark to hear how wonderful I am!!!
- Podcaster Kevin Laymon was a former student of mine at Faith Bible Seminary in our Biblical Counseling Lab/Practicum.
- Podcaster interviewee, Pastor, Dr., Dr., Stephen Ganschow (yes, two doctorates!), is a good friend of mine; and I recommended Stephen as my replacement at Bethel Church in Northwest Indiana.
Here’s the podcast outline, with the timeline: 
- 0:00 Introduction
- 2:22 What is Biblical Counseling?
- 5:55 Dr. Ganschow’s Background?
- 8:28 What Makes Biblical Counseling Different?
- 15:00 Who’s Captain American and Who’s Iron Man?
- 24:38 Bob Kellemen’s Efforts
- 33:26 Will Reconciliation Happen?
- 45:24 Common Ground
- 50:40 My $0.02
Podcast #2: Curtis Solomon and the Biblical Counseling Coalition’s 15:14 Podcast—A Call to Peace
Here’s your link: A Call to Peace.
The BCC describes this episode as follows:
“Welcome to 15:14. In this episode, BCC Executive Director, Dr. Curtis Solomon, encourages biblical counselors to pursue a path toward greater peace in the broader biblical counseling movement. His encouragement calls for charity, clarity, and collaboration as key steps toward peace.”
Dr. Solomon, the Biblical Counseling Coalition’s Executive Director, introduces the context for his post with these words:
“Anyone who’s been paying attention to the broader biblical counseling movement over the past year knows that it has not been a season of peace among our ranks. I don’t presume to believe that this one podcast episode will resolve everything, but I do pray it helps.”
He then outlines some reflections shared in 2017 by David Powlison—during another time of conflict in the modern biblical counseling movement (the 50-year-young biblical counseling movement has been a feisty group). Solomon shares Powlison’s thoughts on ways to frame or describe the two groups in the 2017 biblical counseling civil war.
“David encouraged us to use language of protectors and explorers to describe the edges of a spectrum that makes up the biblical counseling movement. It’s worth noting that the spectrum of the biblical counseling is still very conservative in relation to the wider spectrum of positions on counseling within Christendom and extremely conservative in comparison to the vast spectrum of beliefs and practices in the entire counseling world, both secular and Christian. Theologically, our movement is located within the very conservative segment of Christendom.
The strengths, as he [Powlison] saw them, of protectors are their avid desire to protect the biblical and theological fidelity of biblical counseling. They’re going to focus the majority, if not all their time, on studying the Word of God to mine its depths for wisdom to guide their counseling. They’re also going to be on guard for anything that might threaten the fidelity of biblical counseling.
Explorers also uphold a high view of Scripture and are committed to its primacy in the care of souls. Otherwise, they would not be biblical counselors. The strength that distinguishes their position is that they are going to explore the vast stores of knowledge in God’s creation that lie outside the Bible. They’re going to glean things from their exploration that can aid our care of souls. Rightly understood, they are not going to see these things as necessary or essential to the care of souls, but supplementary to the all-sufficient Word of God.”
Having summarized Powlison’s descriptions of the strengths of explorers and protectors, Dr. Solomon now summarizes Powlison’s sense of the weaknesses of both groups.
“Explorers and protectors are both key members of the biblical counseling movement, but their tendencies also come with some weaknesses….”
To hear about the weaknesses of both groups, you’ll need to listen to Dr. Solomon’s presentation, where he then applies Powlison’s thoughts about the 2017 issues to the issues facing biblical counselors today in 2025.
