Twitter/X Interaction with Dale Johnson 

Since I’ve posted responses (such as here) to Heath Lambert’s podcasts about the state of the biblical counseling movement (such as here), it’s not surprising that I’ve had online interactions with other biblical counseling leaders. For instance, ACBC Executive Director, Dale Johnson sent me a public tweet saying, 

“To clarify, you would say you’re not left of Heath or me or others in the movement?”

I appreciate Dale’s forthright question. I’m glad he publicly asked it.

I had several public responses.

1. I don’t like to use the language of “left” and “right” for the BC world because who defines that?

2. Dale, could you define what you mean by “left”?

3. “No. I would not at all say that I am ‘left’ of Heath, you, or others in the BC movement.”

4. Dale, I would happily have you read any of my books, booklets, articles, blog posts and you and I then engage in any discussion you want about the content of those resources.

“Left”? 

I assume that many biblical counselors would define “left of” as not developing our theology and methodology of biblical counseling on the Bible. I surmise that some people assume that biblical counselors to their “left” are less committed to theologically-saturated biblical counseling, less committed to sufficiency of Scripture.

It is my conviction that I build my model of biblical counseling theology and methodology biblically, theologically, and historically (church history).

It is my conviction that I am just as committed to the sufficiency of Scripture as Dale/Heath.

It is my conviction that I use God’s sufficient Scriptures to build a biblical theology of research, science, neuroscience, descriptive research, and being soul physicians of embodied-souls.

How would you assess those claims?

How would Dale assess those claims?

Let’s explore those questions together.

“Bob, Why Post About This Stuff? Why Address Your “Place” in the Modern BC Movement?” 

I’ve shared previously why I believe a public response to Heath’s public podcasts is legitimate.

But why post a public response to Dale’s public Twitter/X question about whether I am “left” of Dale/Heath?

• Responding is not necessary for those who know me, read me, listen to me teach, or have studied under me.

• It may be necessary for those who don’t know me other than as someone responding to Heath—who they know. It would be helpful for people reading my interactions with Heath to know where I am coming from theologically as a biblical counselor.

Let’s be honest. We all have a built-in bias toward those we know. We implicitly give “more of a benefit of the doubt” to those we know and have read. That makes sense.

So, if Heath and I engage in a public discussion about biblical counseling and some folks know Heath, but “don’t know Bob from the man in the moon,” then they will filter their perception through their familiarity with Heath and through their assumptions about Bob. If you assume that I am “to the ‘left” of Heath/Dale, then you’ll likely give my perspective little hearing.

And that shuts down iron-sharpening-iron conversations among biblical counselors.

But It’s Not Really About Bob 

Here’s the main reason I’m crafting this post.

There seems to be this assumption/perception by some that those who are not aligned with Heath, Dale, and ACBC are to the “left” of them biblically.

That is an assumption that I trust this blog post might begin to dismantle. I am hoping and praying that we can actually do the hard work of listening to one another and reading one another “through Berean eyes” (Acts 17:11).

Let’s drop the assumptions that “our group” has cornered the market on truth.

Let’s drop the assumption that “other groups” are automatically less biblical—just because their biblical interpretations and applications may be different than our group.

What Do Other Biblical Counseling Leaders Think About Bob? 

I’m biased about me! So, don’t take my word for whether I am on the “left” of the modern biblical counseling movement. Take the word of other biblical counselors who have read my work and publicly endorsed my writings. Take the word of 72 endorsements by some of the most “conservative” (another word I don’t like without definition) biblical counseling leaders on the planet. 

1. My books have been endorsed (or Forewords written for) at least 72 times by NANC/ACBC Academy Members, NANC/ACBC Fellows, NANC/ACBC Board of Directors, and NANC/ACBC Certified Members, such as:

• Ernie Baker (6 times)
• Steve Viars (6 times)
• Jim Newheiser (5 times)
• Julie Ganschow (4 times)
• Brad Bigney (4 times)
• John Street (3 times)
• Randy Patten (3 times)
• Howard Eyrich (3 times)
• Paul Tautges (3 times)
• Jeremy Pierre (3 times)
• Paul Tripp (2 times)
• Ben Marshall (2 times)
• Andrew Rogers (2 times)
• Wayne Vanderwier (2 times)
• Alexandre Sascha Mendes (2 times)
• Amy Baker (2 times)
• Nicolas Ellen (2 times)
• Pat Quinn (2 times)
• David Powlison (1 time)
• Wayne Mack (1 time)
• Bob Somerville (1 time)
• Ron Allchin (1 time)
• Charles Hodges (1 time)
• Kevin Carson (1 time)
• Kevin Hurt (1 time)
• Mark Shaw (1 time)
• Shannon McCoy (1 time)
• Tom Zempel (1 time)
• Jeff Ballard (1 time)
• Brent Aucoin (1 time)
• Lilly Park (1 time)
• Cutis Solomon (1 time)
• Michael Leister (1 time)
• Ken Long (1 time)

2. My books have been endorsed (or Forewords written for) at least 49 times by other biblical counseling leaders, such as:

• Ed Welch (5 times)
• Robert Cheong (5 times)
• Elyse Fitzpatrick (5 times)
• Garrett Higbee (5 times)
• Jonathan Holmes (5 times)
• Mike Emlet (3 times)
• Deepak Reju (3 times)
• Betty-Anne Van Rees (3 times)
• Jeremy Lelek (3 times)
• Charles Ware (2 times)
• Sam Williams (2 times)
• Jeff Forrey (2 times)
• John Henderson (1 time)
• Lee Lewis (1 time)
• Jason Kovacs (1 time)
• Eliza Huie (1 time)
• David Dunham (1 time)
• Brad Hambrick (1 time)

3. My books have been endorsed (or Forewords written for) at least 19 times by evangelical Christian leaders, such as:

• Steve DeWitt (4 times)
• Al Mohler (2 times)
• Daniel Akin (2 times)
• J. D. Greear (2 times)
• Timothy Paul Jones (1 time)
• Mark Vroegop (1 time)
• Tim Challies (1 time)
• Joni Eareckson Tada (1 time)
• Brian Croft (1 time)
• Jonathan Dodson (1 time)
• Nancy Leigh DeMoss (1 time)
• Alistair Begg (1 time)
• Matt Chandler (1 time)

Steve Viars: “Have You Read Bob’s Stuff? Have You Talked to Bob?” 

Back in 2010, when David Powlison, Randy Patten, Steve Viars, and others asked me to be the founding Executive Director of the Biblical Counseling Coalition, some members of the modern biblical counseling movement did not know me. They would say to Steve, “We trust you. You trust Bob. But who is Bob as a biblical counselor?” Steve responded repeatedly,

“Have you read Bob’s stuff? Bob writes a lot. He’s an open book about biblical counseling. Read Bob’s writings.” 

“Have you talked to Bob?” 

I’m thankful for many biblical counseling leaders who did exactly what Steve encouraged them to do. They read my stuff. They talked to me. Kevin Carson is one prime example. Over the years we have become good friends, ministered together, and Kevin uses a number of my resources.

What About Bob? 

Why would I say to Dale, “No. I am not at all to the ‘left’ of you and Heath?” Though I realize we are all self-biased, there are actual facts to support my conviction.

• I have been biblically studying and doing biblical counseling since 1974 when my pastor, Pastor Bill Goode, introduced me to it.

• I have a 50-year commitment to developing a biblical theology and biblical methodology of biblical counseling.

• I wrote my Th.M. thesis on Hebrew Anthropological Terms as a Foundation for a Biblical Counseling Model of Man.

• I wrote my Ph.D. dissertation on Martin Luther’s theology and practice of pastoral counseling. That dissertation became my book (endorsed by biblical counseling leaders like Wayne Mack, John Street, and others): Counseling Under the Cross: How Martin Luther Applied the Gospel to Daily Life.

• For an introduction to my biblical theology of biblical counseling check out: 10 Major Bible Doctrines Applied to Biblical Counseling: A Theology of Biblical Counseling. This post is based on my book, Gospel-Centered Counseling: How Christ Changes Lives.

• For my more recent summary of my approach to biblical counseling check out: 6 Biblical Counseling Convictions. Here’s my summary. As biblical counselors we seek to be: Gospel-Centered, Theologically-Saturated, Relationship-Focused, Church History-Informed, Research-Aware Soul Physicians of Embodied-Souls.

• Check out any of my writings here at RPM Ministries and the RPM Ministries Truth & Love blog site.

• Engage with any of my 25 books on changing lives with Christ’s changeless truth here.

• For a summary of my biblical, theological, and historical (church history) study of current issues in biblical counseling, see: 55 Resources for Counseling the Whole Person: The Bible, the Body, the Embodied-Soul, Research, Science, and Neuroscience. 

I’d make you the same offer to you that I made to Dale.

Feel free to read any of my stuff. Then let’s have an “adult-to-adult conversation” about whether or not it is biblical.

Bob Kellemen: Biblical Counseling Insider or Outsider? 

As you read my engagement with Heath, especially if you are more “Heath-aligned,” it will be helpful for you to know a bit more about Bob.

• What’s my history with the modern biblical counseling movement?

• Am I an outsider or an insider to the modern biblical counseling movement?

• Have I been considered a “member in good standing of the modern biblical counseling movement?”

• Have I been considered a rabble-rouser and trouble-maker or a bridge-builder and peace-maker?

• Who is this Kellemen guy?

1. As I mentioned earlier, I was introduced to the modern nouthetic biblical counseling movement before many current biblical counseling leaders were born. Fifty years ago, Pastor Bill Goode taught me and other youth at Grace Baptist Church in Gary, Indiana about this new stuff—“nouthetic counseling.”

2. At the invitation and encouragement of David Powlison, Randy Patten, Steve Viars, and others, I served for six years as the founding Executive Director of the Biblical Counseling Coalition.

3. In 2010, when we were discussing whether I would take on the role as BCC ED, David Powlison spoke up—not just to me, but in the presence of the initial Board of Directors of the Biblical Counseling Coalition. David shared,

“Bob, I believe you are the exact right choice. You’re our litmus test. If people can’t see you as a biblical counselor, then they wouldn’t be a fit in the Biblical Counseling Coalition.”

4. David Powlison and I facilitated three dozen biblical counseling leaders in the development of the Biblical Counseling Coalition Confessional Statement. I thoroughly enjoyed that ten-month privileges of working shoulder-to-shoulder with David.

5. At the invitation of Randy Patten, I spoke numerous times at the annual NANC Conference.

6. At the invitation of Heath Lambert, I spoke numerous times at the annual NANC/ACBC Conference.

7. For the past twenty years, I’ve spoken locally, regionally, nationally, and internationally not only at NANC/ACBC conferences and seminars, but also at CCEF events, Faith Biblical Counseling events, ABC events, IBCD events, CBCC (Canadian Biblical Counseling Coalition) events, BCC events, been the keynote speaker at Julie Ganschow’s Reigning Grace conference, spoken at biblical counseling events in Germany, Brazil, Romania, and Canada.

8. I was the General Editor overseeing three collaboratively-written books by dozens of biblical counseling leaders, including dozens of NANC/ACBC leaders, NANC/ACBC Certified Members, NANC/ACBC Fellows, NANC/ACBC Board of Directors, and NANC/ACBC Academy Members.

Be a Good “Berean” (Acts 17:11) 

Again, this is really not about me. It’s about us—all of us as biblical counselors, as brothers and sisters in Christ.

My requests:

Please don’t assess me or others as “left” of Dale/Heath/ACBC without actually examining, first hand, our actual writings and teachings.

Please assess us biblically.

As the Bereans did with Paul in Acts 17:11, please examine the Scriptures to see if what we write, teach, and practice is biblically faithful.